Monday, November 26, 2012

Post nice stories too. Yawn . . .

     Whilst doing my mining, I went though a number of Lost In Eve podcasts.  I like the rivalry banter of the good old triple A vs CFC stuff, which mainly involves Rundle's -A- pulpit.  I like the null sec reports on wars, etc, and I don't necessarily mind them talking about dev blogs and game changes.  What is tough to sit through though, is when they get all Eve-fanboy.  They talk about talking about Eve.  Talk about talking, and ho boy baby Jeebus, can those two fucking talk about talking, especially, "the Rundle".

     A common theme/comment is how to get non-Eve players interested in Eve.  How to get the "Eve in great" message send out to the world's gaming community.  Well, the word IS getting out to the gaming community and it isn't a good "word".  That bit of news should be approximately of ZERO fucking surprise to any Eve player, and it should be abundantly clear to Jade and Rundle, but in their Eve coloured glasses, sometimes I wonder, because they want people to talk about the good stuff too.

     They seem to be able to gloss over the fact that Eve has a fair number of assholes in it, and they are big enough assholes to command the greatest part, like, say, about 99 fucking percent, of all Eve news content.  Open sandboxes, and emergent game play, and you can be the master of your own domain, and all that rot, is pretty much a thin skin of dried shit that floats atop the cesspool of Eve that the rest of the online world thinks it is.

     Few people pay attention to any kind of news that is nice or good.  Criminals, evil corporate types, murderers, who is cheating on Sandra Bullock again, and the need for 57 million firetrap SUVs to be recalled.  Those are things that catch people's attention.  They want to hear about bad shit happening, especially to other people, because it makes them feel good that it didn't happen to them.  No one gives a shit about how many old ladies were helped across the road, or how many people were fed at the food bank, or how many starving people with flies walking on their eyeballs were fed in the desert country of <insert desert country name here>.  That shit is skipped right over so you can get to the comics or fast forward it to get to the Sandra Bullock part (who I think is HAWT! :)).  No one pays attention to good news like that in real life because it makes them feel like assholes, because they didn't do any of that good stuff.  So why would "good Eve news" interest anyone and be a draw for new players to flock to Eve?  The answer is, it doesn't and it won't.  Bad news DOES attract more assholes though, and that's not good either.

     Drama makes news stories and that catches people's attentions, but the vast majority of the gaming population isn't really interested in REAL drama, personal drama, drama that knocks them on their chair shaped asses and takes their shiniey stuffs and money.  Not even PVP players from other games who routinely get their stuffz back.  They, the majority of the non-angry players, I think, want goodness, niceness, or at least no badness.  "Good news" isn't news because it should be the standard, not something out of the ordinary that earns a news bulletin.  "GOOD" is expected, and in most MMOs, is the standard as soon as you log in.  People just might like to play a game to relax.  To zone out, not think, do stupid shite to get some pixels broken, killed and revived, or break some stone blocks, or just plant some fucking carrots.  They don't want to have to look over their shoulder for a boogey man player looking to ruin their day.  Even if Eve isn't filled to the brim with assholes like everyone thinks, it doesn't matter, that's the perception, and no "good" news will ever wipe that out.

     I had a bit of an epiphany though.  The good news is more bad news!  I know right?!?  I think CCP is slowly realizing this too.  What we need is more news of game changes, nerfs and lots of public outcry and reports of tears.

"But d00d!", you exclaim, "that's what we've got right now, and that's the freakin' problem, yo!"

"Ha ha!!", says I, "But this time, it is not the cries of the carebear, nor do the tears come from the eyes of the miner or the pubbie, anon.  This time, the wailing and the gnashing of teeth have come forth from the pie hole of the griefer."

     As news gets out that griefers and assholes are unsubbing from Eve because it's becoming too Hello Kitty in Space™, that is exactly the kind of good news that will start inflating the anemically flat  subscription numbers.  You gotta break some poopy eggs to make some good news omelettes. ;)


  1. "As news gets out that griefers and assholes are unsubbing from Eve because it's becoming too Hello Kitty in Space™, that is exactly the kind of good news ..."

    So, what you're saying is that you'd love it if EVE became Hello Kitty in Space. You want to see PvP-flagging (or no PvP at all), throughout the game.


    1. No, what I said is that Hello Kitty in Space is going to be the "good news" that will get non-angry players to play a game where the vast majority of news is about assholes being assholes. Whether it's good news for the game or not would remain to be seen. It's not exactly a news flash to see that more and more updates are favoring the dreaded "care bears" that play in high sec, pay subscriptions too, like spaceships, but aren't interested in non-consentual PVP. If gankers and the myopic pvpers are content to sit there while they grief Eve out from underneath themselves, that's their call. When the gankers/pvpers proclaim that "Eve is ruined!" (due to their own activity), guess where the "care bears" will STILL be? :)

  2. Agree, agreed and agree. :o)

    Folks don't understand that the jerks who get these addictive momentary rushes and hard-ons because they savor imagining that they are ruining some nerdy kid's fun are why Eve can't quite rise above.

    Some of the worst of these angry/hurt players are the hard core base that has stayed or returned over the long haul. Newby and some not so newby carebears (who have no idea what to expect, no safe haven, no chance to *taste some of the best* Eve offers before it's ruined for them) are the ones that come and go in droves. Never to return or only to return after they gain some perspective on how some bully made it not fun. (Not how some bully non-consensually PVP'd them, cause a good half or more of the grief isn't even about true PVP, just allowed & encouraged misery-making that is so easy to inflict on the more clueless and enthusiastic new players, who might otherwise go much farther than the angry ever consistently do, and grow into very smart, big, organized, PVP worthy corps and individuals.)

    ANY publicity or news that might draw more intelligent/mature and less hostile yet still dedicated players could help shift the balance (true news or not).

    Also if when a noob began to play there were some more quick, HONEST, clear warnings about some beginning pitfalls--NOT HAND-HOLDING--(about the ever present griefers, who live not to steal ISK but to steal fun), perhaps that could help the resolve and preparedness of a few of the new carebear types.


  3. ...

    Almost for sure, if there were a safer place or two for non PVPers (new or not) to go in the game, yet still experience a taste of most that Eve offers, (severely limited in size perhaps, or not) that would help draw more keepers, some of whom would graduate themselves to low and null and be a force. CCP can still keep the game "hard" (pfft) and deep and complex; all the things that do make it better than other MMOs. This will make the longevity of the game. Not the attractiveness of the game to angry assholes as some believe, which will actually be what can destroy it, if CCP doesn't continue a shift in opening up the game more to well adjusted intellectuals and hard core gamers instead of making excuses for and endorsing the attraction it has to bullies.

    While I'm pretty sure if any "safer" areas were created, more measured, mature, calmer folk would play and stay, I'm just as sure this would be the very reason many more of the hardcore malcontents would leave the game; older die-hards and newer angry ones too.

    See, they get a rush just knowing (or believing) that their victims can't hide, that they have complete freedom to go *anywhere* in Eve and throw their frustrations out & around and that others *must* deal with them (give them the respect they crave.) Even if the population of low and null grew, as the population of normal high-sec did and of my theoretical "safer high-sec" did and even if plenty of PVP and variety was still to be had for the malcontents, I'm almost sure most of them would throw a collective fit and rage quit because it would change their whole "untouchable" power-trip that early and current Eve fosters in them.

    It's a kind of authority (CCP) endorsed class warfare or elitism, as if the state has given them a badge to justify taking out the frustrations of their tiny, trapped, little lives out on whoever they wish. It's about these types being smaller minded and only knowing how to deal with the world and self in one small, more hopeless way. Now I wouldn't always use such harsh terms in the practice of psychological health services but that is generally the big basket that 99% of this behavior fits into.

    It's why I've believed since the beginning that Eve in it's past and to some extent current "presentation" won't survive: Tyrants and folk who can't cope positively, with grace, by learning humility and compassion are eventually and always called out and FORCED OUT. The small, undeveloped tyrant-mind creates imbalance and pressure (upon self) in any open system to "grow or go."


  4. ...

    Even as low and null filled up with more capable, calmer thinkers and builders who carry out grander wars and epic PVP schemes the griefers would find it hard to find a place that seems to wholly accept their anti-social knee-jerk need to bully. Even so, I believe that of course there's still a place for this type of role-player & person in the game, just not as things are currently. Now, the Eve atmosphere IS like WOW. That kind of behavior is mind numbing to anyone mature and intelligent.

    No, don't dumb the game down at all. Just the opposite. Continue to demand more than ever before that only smart, effectual, mature, focused people can play this game. Do away with the childish behavior and the game could really be in a class by itself. Right now, it just pretends to be.

    And what you say is so true about this type of player's state of mind. They claim to be 100% well adjusted and say we are just crying, but they always give themselves away expressing their complete immaturity when they think few can see or in their out of control rage when they don't get their way.

    I also see this more than you'd think: In his bio, or in local or voice or on his blog reveals how angry he is at such-&-such in his life or at his work and how Eve is where he takes out his frustration on "stupid people" that he can't yell at or beat up in real life. The "stupid people" of course are just anyone and everyone who happens to be at the wrong place at the wrong time--high-school level convenient rationalization.

    They complain, bully further on the forum, threaten to quit and quit when the way is not paved for them to successfully imagine the fun they are ruining for others. The same for the few who gloat after ruining someone's fun and then play father-superior and instruct the newbie on how not be so dumb, and then brag over and over about it. (Makes one think these folks have little deep meaningful social interaction in life.)

    I've had in my VERY short Eve career at least a dozen harder core, longer term malcontent players do the following:

    1) they send me raging mad eve-mails or second hand chat messages--because they are blocked--that seem to scream how unfair it is that I don't respond or cower to them, or that I can so easily play my way and continue having fun despite them (I like to make it obvious-LOL) ...Even when it means completely avoiding or ignoring them (or any tiny victory they try to claim), yet still carrying on doing my thing, unmoved and barely altered by them.

    2) they petition CCP, using my actions and words as an example, about how unfair it is that they don't have more power in high-sec to destroy everything that I have built, fly, own and love to do. And crying to CCP that I'm exploiting the current state of the game because I can so easily ignore wardecs, can flipping, miner-bumping, and easily avoid them while still making my billions. Or it's wrong that they can't find any juicy targets and really make me pay for making them feel so irrelevant to the game.

    3) they threaten me, "temporarily" rage-quit or completely move out of my little corner of high-sec, where I encourage other newbies and carebears to stand up to them or at least completely ignore/block them, to a place where they can feel like a big bully in the playground again.


  5. I never did what the bullies, CCP and powerless feeling carebears advocate: "Keep your head down and stay quiet."

    I don't watch what I say. I call them out, laugh, move on with my fun IN A BIG WAY, letting others know & I don't sign off all my accounts and let them cool off for a few weeks and I don't run scared. I just use whatever tactics and toons I have to and keep having fun and I let it be known so others might be encouraged to do the same. It absolutely ruins their week!

    Once a guy with top kill board rankings went on for over a month crying over how he had no power to take away my and my 6 or so characters' fun. He thought I'd end up disappearing or moving out of the systems. Nope, he was the one who was ignored by CCP, quit his corp, changed his whole mode of operation and moved far away.

    Make them feel powerless. Even if you are making slight adjustments, never let them focus on that side of it, and you have ruined their motivation to play the way they do.

    I know as less bullying is allowed or even sweeter as it's encouraged less or simply as more confident, calm, persistent carebears and mature PVPers begin to fill up the playground these types, despite the argument they use on us ("don't whine just play elsewhere in New Eden") is what they could do also, they will instead feel powerless, impotent and ineffectual and will quit or grow up.

    Sorry for the rant. Just appreciating and supporting your words. Peace.

    1. Well, that was an epic reply, and yes, I read all of it. :) Anyone who writes that much, I think, has something to say and I would be remiss in not taking the time to read it. I can't say I disagree with any of it. I would be very interested to see what the psych profilers would have to say about high sec griefers. I have no problem with pvp, and do it regularly, just not in Eve, much, and certainly not griefing. Eve gives a multi-level industrial experience, and when I get tired of that, i'll take it to other parts of the game, most likely null, and ply my trade there. As you've said, and as I think CCP has started to show, a smarter, calmer player needs to come to Eve, or it will not survive. Angry people are the minority, and just like in real life, any "neighbourhood" or area that has turned to shit with prevalent anti-social behaviour, ends up turning into a human wasteland, where eventually, even the malcontent trouble makers can no longer live.

      I believe the winds are changing, and what happens to Eve during and after, I know not.